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	<title>Comments on: Student journalists need to learn SEO more than they need AP style</title>
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	<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=p1843</link>
	<description>Focusing on the future of digital journalism</description>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-3314</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-3314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From someone who does search engine optimization professionally, I would need to warn something to your readers: SEO is not just a matter of writing a text in such way or such other way. It goes beyond that. I agree that every writer or journalist should know how to set up a blog post and the basic HTML tags properly, but getting into the bells and whistles of how to optimize a website should be left, in my humble opinion, to programmers and designers.

SEO is not hard to learn, but nobody will write a text book about it. SEO is learned by trial and error, researching how specific websites behave before intentional changes we do on them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From someone who does search engine optimization professionally, I would need to warn something to your readers: SEO is not just a matter of writing a text in such way or such other way. It goes beyond that. I agree that every writer or journalist should know how to set up a blog post and the basic HTML tags properly, but getting into the bells and whistles of how to optimize a website should be left, in my humble opinion, to programmers and designers.</p>
<p>SEO is not hard to learn, but nobody will write a text book about it. SEO is learned by trial and error, researching how specific websites behave before intentional changes we do on them.</p>
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		<title>By: 69.235.82.137</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2351</link>
		<dc:creator>69.235.82.137</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SEO is just as important to online media as subscribers are to a printed newspaper. It&#039;s not about writing for robots.....it&#039;s about search engine optimization. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEO is just as important to online media as subscribers are to a printed newspaper. It&#8217;s not about writing for robots&#8230;..it&#8217;s about search engine optimization. </p>
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		<title>By: 66.93.80.34</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2350</link>
		<dc:creator>66.93.80.34</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting debate - I would have to say I agree that SEO is more important than AP, but even more important is being able to use both of them together in a manner where the average reader is unable to tell that either is being used. Also, I&#039;m wondering from a PR standpoint, if I send in a pitch that is NOT in AP Style, what the journalist will do with it...?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting debate &#8211; I would have to say I agree that SEO is more important than AP, but even more important is being able to use both of them together in a manner where the average reader is unable to tell that either is being used. Also, I&#8217;m wondering from a PR standpoint, if I send in a pitch that is NOT in AP Style, what the journalist will do with it&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lascher</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2349</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Lascher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea that &quot;Learning how to write in a way that acquires traffic is a core skill for today&#039;s student journalist&quot; is exactly what failed me as a student journalist when I attended USC&#039;s Specialized Journalism program. Part of its first class, I attended because I was interested in honing a specialty, on deep, expert knowledge of a field supported by extensive academic studies in that field. As it turned out, during the program&#039;s early stages, it felt as if there was a shift in the program&#039;s emphasis  -- and in the attitude more broadly at Annenberg -- towards crash courses in entrepreneurial journalism and developing new writers.

Thankfully, I was still able to hone some of my subject expertise thanks to KC Cole&#039;s masterful teaching of science writing and guidance on my master&#039;s project by Larry Pryor (buttressed by urgings by people like Michael Parks and teachers out side the journalism department to learn how to delve more deeply into subject matter and to better analyze decision-making). Nevertheless, I witnessed an attitude shift among my fellow students and colleagues. Some became less and less interested in what they were writing about, in truly understanding what they wanted to discuss, in favor of drawing eyes to that writing. Such shifts are sad. They are meaningless, and overall, they are detrimental to sustainable economic ventures.

If we must commodify journalism -- which I am quite hesitant about -- we are wisest if the products we produce are compellingly, effectively presented with lasting informative value. That is why I find arguments like those put forth today by Lisa Barone -- a branding expert no less -- in her Outspoken Media post about &lt;a href=&quot;http://outspokenmedia.com/blogging/outdated-blog-rules/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;5 Old Blogging Rules Killing Your Readership&lt;/a&gt; so much more useful to writers, including journalists, than insistence upon search. Why? Because Barone focuses so squarely on lasting value.

Ultimately, I&#039;m expanding upon much of what&#039;s been written in this comment section (and, I must admit, I&#039;m somewhat turned off by the vitriol bubbling up in this discussion). Perhaps SEO editors could further hone what we do, but, considering Aspake&#039;s thoughts, journalism should remain committed to &quot;information, ideas, emotion, and context in an original and engaging manner.&quot;

I agree that SEO isn&#039;t about conforming to a robotic standard, but it&#039;s also not about speaking to people, it&#039;s about speaking to some sense of the mean average of what people are looking for. The thing is, if we want to succeed -- both in reaching people and in drawing them back to our work -- we can&#039;t just be producing what the public is looking for, what the public wants to read. We must, we absolutely must tell the stories that the public doesn&#039;t know it is looking for, that the public isn&#039;t looking for, that the public hasn&#039;t even conceptualized the terms for. If we don&#039;t, in very short order we will tell fewer and fewer stories that matter, that impact society and we will lose not only all impact, but all value we are capable of offering the public. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that &#8220;Learning how to write in a way that acquires traffic is a core skill for today&#8217;s student journalist&#8221; is exactly what failed me as a student journalist when I attended USC&#8217;s Specialized Journalism program. Part of its first class, I attended because I was interested in honing a specialty, on deep, expert knowledge of a field supported by extensive academic studies in that field. As it turned out, during the program&#8217;s early stages, it felt as if there was a shift in the program&#8217;s emphasis  &#8212; and in the attitude more broadly at Annenberg &#8212; towards crash courses in entrepreneurial journalism and developing new writers.</p>
<p>Thankfully, I was still able to hone some of my subject expertise thanks to KC Cole&#8217;s masterful teaching of science writing and guidance on my master&#8217;s project by Larry Pryor (buttressed by urgings by people like Michael Parks and teachers out side the journalism department to learn how to delve more deeply into subject matter and to better analyze decision-making). Nevertheless, I witnessed an attitude shift among my fellow students and colleagues. Some became less and less interested in what they were writing about, in truly understanding what they wanted to discuss, in favor of drawing eyes to that writing. Such shifts are sad. They are meaningless, and overall, they are detrimental to sustainable economic ventures.</p>
<p>If we must commodify journalism &#8212; which I am quite hesitant about &#8212; we are wisest if the products we produce are compellingly, effectively presented with lasting informative value. That is why I find arguments like those put forth today by Lisa Barone &#8212; a branding expert no less &#8212; in her Outspoken Media post about <a href="http://outspokenmedia.com/blogging/outdated-blog-rules/" rel="nofollow">5 Old Blogging Rules Killing Your Readership</a> so much more useful to writers, including journalists, than insistence upon search. Why? Because Barone focuses so squarely on lasting value.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I&#8217;m expanding upon much of what&#8217;s been written in this comment section (and, I must admit, I&#8217;m somewhat turned off by the vitriol bubbling up in this discussion). Perhaps SEO editors could further hone what we do, but, considering Aspake&#8217;s thoughts, journalism should remain committed to &#8220;information, ideas, emotion, and context in an original and engaging manner.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that SEO isn&#8217;t about conforming to a robotic standard, but it&#8217;s also not about speaking to people, it&#8217;s about speaking to some sense of the mean average of what people are looking for. The thing is, if we want to succeed &#8212; both in reaching people and in drawing them back to our work &#8212; we can&#8217;t just be producing what the public is looking for, what the public wants to read. We must, we absolutely must tell the stories that the public doesn&#8217;t know it is looking for, that the public isn&#8217;t looking for, that the public hasn&#8217;t even conceptualized the terms for. If we don&#8217;t, in very short order we will tell fewer and fewer stories that matter, that impact society and we will lose not only all impact, but all value we are capable of offering the public. </p>
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		<title>By: Robert Niles</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2348</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Niles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to: &quot;Unless -- are you training your students to become newsroom managers instead of reporters?&quot;

Every journalism school had better be training its students to do both. With traditional newsrooms collapsing, many graduates will have to rely on entrepreneurial skills in order to get and stay in the business. Learning how to write in a way that acquires traffic is a core skill for today&#039;s student journalist.

One more thing: I&#039;m not knocking AP style&#039;s effectiveness is creating a comprehensible standard for writing in the print news medium. But that style does not confer the traffic-acquiring advantages &lt;i&gt;online&lt;/i&gt; that a focus on SEO techniques provides. That&#039;s why journalism students need SEO training more than they need AP style training. Remember that I&#039;m writing from the perspective of an online entrepreneur who has to fight for every reader I attract. I don&#039;t have the luxury of a monopoly brand and promotions department delivering me thousands of readers each day.

Again, we&#039;re hurt here in this discussion by the lack of a single publication that summarizes SEO techniques for journalists the way that the AP Stylebook presents AP style. (Can I drop another hint that someone needs to write this text?)

If such a work did exist, I&#039;d urge professors to assign it first. If students master that, and there&#039;s time for the AP Stylebook later, then go ahead. (Or, if you are teaching a print-focused class, include AP then.) ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to: &#8220;Unless &#8212; are you training your students to become newsroom managers instead of reporters?&#8221;</p>
<p>Every journalism school had better be training its students to do both. With traditional newsrooms collapsing, many graduates will have to rely on entrepreneurial skills in order to get and stay in the business. Learning how to write in a way that acquires traffic is a core skill for today&#8217;s student journalist.</p>
<p>One more thing: I&#8217;m not knocking AP style&#8217;s effectiveness is creating a comprehensible standard for writing in the print news medium. But that style does not confer the traffic-acquiring advantages <i>online</i> that a focus on SEO techniques provides. That&#8217;s why journalism students need SEO training more than they need AP style training. Remember that I&#8217;m writing from the perspective of an online entrepreneur who has to fight for every reader I attract. I don&#8217;t have the luxury of a monopoly brand and promotions department delivering me thousands of readers each day.</p>
<p>Again, we&#8217;re hurt here in this discussion by the lack of a single publication that summarizes SEO techniques for journalists the way that the AP Stylebook presents AP style. (Can I drop another hint that someone needs to write this text?)</p>
<p>If such a work did exist, I&#8217;d urge professors to assign it first. If students master that, and there&#8217;s time for the AP Stylebook later, then go ahead. (Or, if you are teaching a print-focused class, include AP then.) </p>
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		<title>By: 98.223.215.212</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>98.223.215.212</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Focusing on SEO is an ill-advised venture for any journalist, and especially those who are just getting into the profession.

I&#039;ve posted an entry to my blog (Why journalists should forget about SEO) in response to this post. You can view it at http://bit.ly/9iyvKc]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Focusing on SEO is an ill-advised venture for any journalist, and especially those who are just getting into the profession.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve posted an entry to my blog (Why journalists should forget about SEO) in response to this post. You can view it at <a href="http://bit.ly/9iyvKc" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9iyvKc</a></p>
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		<title>By: 216.147.203.129</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2346</link>
		<dc:creator>216.147.203.129</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;ve got to be kidding, right? &quot;Search-engine optimization&quot; is a &quot;skill&quot; best suited for management, not writers, because its goal is to get Google users to click on it, not to explain stories or write well.

Unless -- are you training your students to become newsroom managers instead of reporters?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve got to be kidding, right? &#8220;Search-engine optimization&#8221; is a &#8220;skill&#8221; best suited for management, not writers, because its goal is to get Google users to click on it, not to explain stories or write well.</p>
<p>Unless &#8212; are you training your students to become newsroom managers instead of reporters?</p>
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		<title>By: 64.124.201.170</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2345</link>
		<dc:creator>64.124.201.170</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Before we start talking about key words or search engine optimization, or whatever cute little short form you want to use for that (I write about business and I DESPISE abbreviations), the product itself needs to be addressed. If you are not writing something someone wants or needs to read, all of the clever search engine tricks in the world are only going to do you a marginal amount of good, if any.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before we start talking about key words or search engine optimization, or whatever cute little short form you want to use for that (I write about business and I DESPISE abbreviations), the product itself needs to be addressed. If you are not writing something someone wants or needs to read, all of the clever search engine tricks in the world are only going to do you a marginal amount of good, if any.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: 163.192.13.52</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>163.192.13.52</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see you&#039;re not willing to post a logical rebuttal pointing out your fallacies.

Personal attacks, straw men and then half-outing a commenter? You&#039;re not really good at this Internet blog thing, are you?

Stay classy, dude.

Sincerely,

Your Tribune pal]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see you&#8217;re not willing to post a logical rebuttal pointing out your fallacies.</p>
<p>Personal attacks, straw men and then half-outing a commenter? You&#8217;re not really good at this Internet blog thing, are you?</p>
<p>Stay classy, dude.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Your Tribune pal</p>
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		<title>By: 99.36.134.246</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/p1843/#comment-2343</link>
		<dc:creator>99.36.134.246</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1843#comment-2343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Really, j-schools need to ditch AP style and start teaching their students SEO instead. More valuable to their careers.&quot;

That&#039;s odd, because I&#039;ve always thought that style guides - AP, Chicago, others - were meant to help the journalist write something in a way that a reader could best understand it. When did it become all about us and not about the reader?

As a journalist turned marketing writer, I find SEO/SEM invaluable. And there&#039;s certainly no doubt that using SEO in any type of article makes it far more searchable. But it can also make the writing stilted and awkward, difficult to read, and even erode  credibility - readers know how SEO works, and why it&#039;s there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Really, j-schools need to ditch AP style and start teaching their students SEO instead. More valuable to their careers.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s odd, because I&#8217;ve always thought that style guides &#8211; AP, Chicago, others &#8211; were meant to help the journalist write something in a way that a reader could best understand it. When did it become all about us and not about the reader?</p>
<p>As a journalist turned marketing writer, I find SEO/SEM invaluable. And there&#8217;s certainly no doubt that using SEO in any type of article makes it far more searchable. But it can also make the writing stilted and awkward, difficult to read, and even erode  credibility &#8211; readers know how SEO works, and why it&#8217;s there.</p>
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