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	<title>Comments on: Patch is the news industry&#039;s problem, not its solution</title>
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	<description>Focusing on the future of digital journalism</description>
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		<title>By: 24.44.39.81</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2717</link>
		<dc:creator>24.44.39.81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yay to all of us. Success will follow the passion we put into our sites, not the scale and WalMartization of McJournalism.

Keep the faith.

Polly

www.theloopny.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay to all of us. Success will follow the passion we put into our sites, not the scale and WalMartization of McJournalism.</p>
<p>Keep the faith.</p>
<p>Polly</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theloopny.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.theloopny.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: 98.234.93.197</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2716</link>
		<dc:creator>98.234.93.197</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are so right. And if you want a case study, check out the news site I founded with two partners in Berkeley CA nearly two years ago: www.berkeleyside.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are so right. And if you want a case study, check out the news site I founded with two partners in Berkeley CA nearly two years ago: <a href="http://www.berkeleyside.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.berkeleyside.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Green</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2715</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You said: &quot;But there&#039;s an alternative to corporate news chains and corporate social networks: homegrown news communities run by local journalists.&quot;

I respectfully disagree on a specific point: There is no alternative to corporate news chains if one is concerned about national and international news.

Arguably, readers are concerned about both, what happened at the local city council and school board meetings and what happened in Washington D.C. and U.S. international relations.

Hyperlocal has its place. The monetization of the hyperlocal interest appears to be the crux of the argument over AOL&#039;s approach via Patch. Since no one has articulated AOL&#039;s specific business model, outside of conjecture and innuendo, it&#039;s premature to conclude at this juncture the top-down approach won&#039;t work.

The business of media has long escaped journalists who have been the tools in the business model&#039;s toolkit. Today, the smart money is on entrepreneur-minded journalists. But when we put together our business plans, we better remain cognizant of the corporate competitor whose business model we&#039;ve yet to figure out ... even as we seek to figure out our own.

The bottom line is journalists are new to this business game, despite our storytelling skills. And I might remind everyone that it was journalists laughing at bloggers early on and now crying foul on the success of the Huffington Post ... while ignoring the vast landscape filled with HuffPo imitators, many of whom are doing quite well amid massive corporate media layoffs impacting the elite-minded journalists who scoff at the new business models that have lowered barriers to entry.

It&#039;s a new frontier with many opportunities for both the small guy and the big guy. I wouldn&#039;t count anyone out at this point. It&#039;s way too early. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said: &#8220;But there&#8217;s an alternative to corporate news chains and corporate social networks: homegrown news communities run by local journalists.&#8221;</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree on a specific point: There is no alternative to corporate news chains if one is concerned about national and international news.</p>
<p>Arguably, readers are concerned about both, what happened at the local city council and school board meetings and what happened in Washington D.C. and U.S. international relations.</p>
<p>Hyperlocal has its place. The monetization of the hyperlocal interest appears to be the crux of the argument over AOL&#8217;s approach via Patch. Since no one has articulated AOL&#8217;s specific business model, outside of conjecture and innuendo, it&#8217;s premature to conclude at this juncture the top-down approach won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>The business of media has long escaped journalists who have been the tools in the business model&#8217;s toolkit. Today, the smart money is on entrepreneur-minded journalists. But when we put together our business plans, we better remain cognizant of the corporate competitor whose business model we&#8217;ve yet to figure out &#8230; even as we seek to figure out our own.</p>
<p>The bottom line is journalists are new to this business game, despite our storytelling skills. And I might remind everyone that it was journalists laughing at bloggers early on and now crying foul on the success of the Huffington Post &#8230; while ignoring the vast landscape filled with HuffPo imitators, many of whom are doing quite well amid massive corporate media layoffs impacting the elite-minded journalists who scoff at the new business models that have lowered barriers to entry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a new frontier with many opportunities for both the small guy and the big guy. I wouldn&#8217;t count anyone out at this point. It&#8217;s way too early. </p>
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		<title>By: Ken Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2714</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2011 06:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shamelessly cross posting from the Slate.com follow up as I think it&#039;s relevant here, too.

I just don&#039;t know what to say. Frankly I&#039;m speechless at this point. This isn&#039;t a slight against Shafer so much as a general comment on the state of debate.

Case: Not only is the conversation about what local media needs to be far off base (this article and its comments are pretty consistent with the overall conversation, the FCC report being as guilty as any), what&#039;s worst is that it seems we can&#039;t tell the difference between the new McClatchy of Local (that&#039;s Patch) and the new dawn of the weekly local newspaper (that&#039;s many of the &quot;hyberlocal&quot; sites talked about.)

It&#039;s a fairly 1:1 conversion of print-to-web models.

If we can&#039;t even see through that smoke screen, how far are we from the real conversations about what needs to happen?

Hint: Efficiency, and death of the mega-publications blocking the sunlight from the forest floor. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shamelessly cross posting from the Slate.com follow up as I think it&#8217;s relevant here, too.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t know what to say. Frankly I&#8217;m speechless at this point. This isn&#8217;t a slight against Shafer so much as a general comment on the state of debate.</p>
<p>Case: Not only is the conversation about what local media needs to be far off base (this article and its comments are pretty consistent with the overall conversation, the FCC report being as guilty as any), what&#8217;s worst is that it seems we can&#8217;t tell the difference between the new McClatchy of Local (that&#8217;s Patch) and the new dawn of the weekly local newspaper (that&#8217;s many of the &#8220;hyberlocal&#8221; sites talked about.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a fairly 1:1 conversion of print-to-web models.</p>
<p>If we can&#8217;t even see through that smoke screen, how far are we from the real conversations about what needs to happen?</p>
<p>Hint: Efficiency, and death of the mega-publications blocking the sunlight from the forest floor. </p>
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		<title>By: Perry Gaskill</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2713</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry Gaskill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last week, Nicholas Carlson over at BusinessInsider posted some leaked Patch site traffic reports for Southern California, and if you add population numbers to the data and compare the 70 or so communities involved, it starts to paint an interesting picture.

According to an NAA study done between 2004 and 2007, a typical newspaper will reach around 32 percent of online readers in a given area in a given month. Each reader (UV) will visit about seven or eight times per month and view slightly more than five pages, on average, each visit.

Patch&#039;s numbers show a different pattern. In general, the reach count is good. A typical Patch site in a given month has UV counts equal to about 41 percent of the local population. What&#039;s not so good is that a typical reader visits a Patch site less than two times per month and views, on average, fewer than two pages. And those last numbers don&#039;t seem to vary much from one Patch site to another in the Southern California sample. Nor do those numbers seem to vary much depending on whether the site has been around for a year or only a few months. The relative size of the community also seems to not be much of a factor.

What this seems to indicate is that although Patch has been able to generate awareness of itself within each site&#039;s local community, it hasn&#039;t been able to generate much engagement.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last week, Nicholas Carlson over at BusinessInsider posted some leaked Patch site traffic reports for Southern California, and if you add population numbers to the data and compare the 70 or so communities involved, it starts to paint an interesting picture.</p>
<p>According to an NAA study done between 2004 and 2007, a typical newspaper will reach around 32 percent of online readers in a given area in a given month. Each reader (UV) will visit about seven or eight times per month and view slightly more than five pages, on average, each visit.</p>
<p>Patch&#8217;s numbers show a different pattern. In general, the reach count is good. A typical Patch site in a given month has UV counts equal to about 41 percent of the local population. What&#8217;s not so good is that a typical reader visits a Patch site less than two times per month and views, on average, fewer than two pages. And those last numbers don&#8217;t seem to vary much from one Patch site to another in the Southern California sample. Nor do those numbers seem to vary much depending on whether the site has been around for a year or only a few months. The relative size of the community also seems to not be much of a factor.</p>
<p>What this seems to indicate is that although Patch has been able to generate awareness of itself within each site&#8217;s local community, it hasn&#8217;t been able to generate much engagement.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Knobel</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2712</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Knobel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 14:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t agree with you more. Local journalism neither requires the economies of scale anymore and, importantly, it doesn&#039;t scale in the way AOL is attempting.

The local newspapers of the previous century also didn&#039;t scale. What occurred was that local entrepreneurs created one or a handful of papers. Then Gannett, Newhouse and others came and wrapped them into big, national networks. The same thing might happen with local sites, but that could be well in the future.

I wrote about this for Nieman Lab shortly after the AOL/HuffPo acquisition: http://www.niemanlab.org/2011/02/lance-knobel-for-hyperlocal-news-we-local-players-will-have-the-edge/ ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more. Local journalism neither requires the economies of scale anymore and, importantly, it doesn&#8217;t scale in the way AOL is attempting.</p>
<p>The local newspapers of the previous century also didn&#8217;t scale. What occurred was that local entrepreneurs created one or a handful of papers. Then Gannett, Newhouse and others came and wrapped them into big, national networks. The same thing might happen with local sites, but that could be well in the future.</p>
<p>I wrote about this for Nieman Lab shortly after the AOL/HuffPo acquisition: <a href="http://www.niemanlab.org/2011/02/lance-knobel-for-hyperlocal-news-we-local-players-will-have-the-edge/" rel="nofollow">http://www.niemanlab.org/2011/02/lance-knobel-for-hyperlocal-news-we-local-players-will-have-the-edge/</a> </p>
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		<title>By: 174.31.150.198</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2711</link>
		<dc:creator>174.31.150.198</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 12:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[THANK YOU - this is what those of us who are indeed succeeding as independent, authentically local online news publishers have been saying for a looong time. Me especially. Corporations, get the hell out, trying to squeeze a few bucks by hounding microbusinesses for cheap ads appearing on your little-viewed sites is UNCONSCIONABLE ... go find some other way to save your stockholder-beholden rumps. - Tracy @ W. Seattle Blog]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANK YOU &#8211; this is what those of us who are indeed succeeding as independent, authentically local online news publishers have been saying for a looong time. Me especially. Corporations, get the hell out, trying to squeeze a few bucks by hounding microbusinesses for cheap ads appearing on your little-viewed sites is UNCONSCIONABLE &#8230; go find some other way to save your stockholder-beholden rumps. &#8211; Tracy @ W. Seattle Blog</p>
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		<title>By: 68.111.138.70</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2710</link>
		<dc:creator>68.111.138.70</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Robert, my standard nut graf response. Patch is the media equivalent of Enron. It actually blows my mind how wrong the entire concept to execution is to the extent there must be other elements at work in this dynamic. I will be very curious to see how the shell game ends, whether it simply is stupidity or something more criminally/insanely liable. Either way, about $750 million down the drain later early 2012 will be pretty funny to see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Robert, my standard nut graf response. Patch is the media equivalent of Enron. It actually blows my mind how wrong the entire concept to execution is to the extent there must be other elements at work in this dynamic. I will be very curious to see how the shell game ends, whether it simply is stupidity or something more criminally/insanely liable. Either way, about $750 million down the drain later early 2012 will be pretty funny to see.</p>
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		<title>By: 96.57.76.82</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/patch-is-the-news-industrys-problem-not-its-solution/#comment-2709</link>
		<dc:creator>96.57.76.82</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1989#comment-2709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As the publisher of a local geo-targed news and entertainment website in New York I agree that a mass-market approach does not fit for the long haul.  Sure it seems great now, a few extra bucks to a journalist in a tight economy but eventually, the big budgets shrink as aggregated content permeates the scene on Patch.  In addition to Patch-esque sites, the concept of Internet advertisings &quot;value&quot; needs to change.  The perception to the advertiser is that online advertising should be cheap, $100 or less, since there is no &quot;production cost&quot; or glossy cover.  However, with a global reach the ad online is so much more valuable and the cost for the ad should reflect that, and it does not right now.  Printed publications are audited to prove how many copies were made and that those copies were distributed.  Some take it further and project sales.  Though the advertiser will never know for certain how many people saw their ad or acted upon the ad in question.  Websites are painfully scrutinized by the advertiser - click-through rates, impressions, and bounce rates are judged unfairly and often cause ad sales to slump to levels that do not support writers and a technical staff.  How does it all work out?  I suppose only time will tell.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the publisher of a local geo-targed news and entertainment website in New York I agree that a mass-market approach does not fit for the long haul.  Sure it seems great now, a few extra bucks to a journalist in a tight economy but eventually, the big budgets shrink as aggregated content permeates the scene on Patch.  In addition to Patch-esque sites, the concept of Internet advertisings &#8220;value&#8221; needs to change.  The perception to the advertiser is that online advertising should be cheap, $100 or less, since there is no &#8220;production cost&#8221; or glossy cover.  However, with a global reach the ad online is so much more valuable and the cost for the ad should reflect that, and it does not right now.  Printed publications are audited to prove how many copies were made and that those copies were distributed.  Some take it further and project sales.  Though the advertiser will never know for certain how many people saw their ad or acted upon the ad in question.  Websites are painfully scrutinized by the advertiser &#8211; click-through rates, impressions, and bounce rates are judged unfairly and often cause ad sales to slump to levels that do not support writers and a technical staff.  How does it all work out?  I suppose only time will tell.</p>
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