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	<title>Comments on: The case for independent news sites as profit-makers: &#039;I think there&#039;s a great business model here&#039;</title>
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	<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here</link>
	<description>Focusing on the future of digital journalism</description>
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		<title>By: Dave Chase</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1479</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill - that is very interesting about what they are doing in Vermont. While what we are doing may be viewed as &quot;low profit&quot; by some, our intent is to have it be a viable and hopefully high profit business (we have some work to do!). Would that preclude us from utilizing this model? Thanks for sharing this!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill &#8211; that is very interesting about what they are doing in Vermont. While what we are doing may be viewed as &#8220;low profit&#8221; by some, our intent is to have it be a viable and hopefully high profit business (we have some work to do!). Would that preclude us from utilizing this model? Thanks for sharing this!</p>
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		<title>By: David Westphal</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1478</link>
		<dc:creator>David Westphal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shocking that Vermont would be the place where something like this would happen, right.  Very interesting, Bill, thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shocking that Vermont would be the place where something like this would happen, right.  Very interesting, Bill, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: 216.106.40.102</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>216.106.40.102</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To DavidW and David Chase:

David Chase&#039;s comment about program-related investment jogged my memory about the Vermont L3C statue, which became law last year. It&#039;s a form of incorporation -- Vermont is the first state to have it, but you can operate in any state and be incorporated in Vermont. It was crafted specifically to permit directors of the corporate to operate with a social mission **ahead** of profit, and yet still be a profit-making, stock company. Significantly, it includes language designed to make L3C&#039;s a safe investment for foundations seeking program-related investments with a &quot;social rate of return.&quot;  DavidW -- This is a model I want us to look at Dec. 3-5 in Missouri at the &quot;Blueprinting the Information Valet Economy,&quot; gathering, because it might be an appropriate corporate form for the Information Valet Project (see http://www.ivpblueprint.org). Some months ago I talked to the attorney in Vermont who, as I recall, wrote the language in the Vermont L3C statute and has been promoting it.

Here are some links:
http://www.drm.com/news/thomas_h:_moody_addresses_utah_philanthropists_regarding_vermont_l3c_act
http://www.drm.com/business_law/l3c_-_low-profit_limited_liability_companies

http://www.nonprofitsassistancefund.org/blog/2008/05/12/where-for-profit-and-nonprofit-meet/

Kate Barr: &quot;This language was carefully developed to qualify these new entities to receive investments from foundations through Program Related Investments.

http://www.sec.state.vt.us/corps/dobiz/llc/llc_l3c.htm

(I should identify myself as the author of this comment:  Bill Densmore, densmorew@rjionline.org)

And the conact information for the lawyer in Vermont:
Tom Moody
Downs Rachlin Martin PLLC
Burlington, VT
802-846-8316 (direct)
802-734-8316 (cell)
tmoody@drm.com
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To DavidW and David Chase:</p>
<p>David Chase&#8217;s comment about program-related investment jogged my memory about the Vermont L3C statue, which became law last year. It&#8217;s a form of incorporation &#8212; Vermont is the first state to have it, but you can operate in any state and be incorporated in Vermont. It was crafted specifically to permit directors of the corporate to operate with a social mission **ahead** of profit, and yet still be a profit-making, stock company. Significantly, it includes language designed to make L3C&#8217;s a safe investment for foundations seeking program-related investments with a &#8220;social rate of return.&#8221;  DavidW &#8212; This is a model I want us to look at Dec. 3-5 in Missouri at the &#8220;Blueprinting the Information Valet Economy,&#8221; gathering, because it might be an appropriate corporate form for the Information Valet Project (see <a href="http://www.ivpblueprint.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ivpblueprint.org</a>). Some months ago I talked to the attorney in Vermont who, as I recall, wrote the language in the Vermont L3C statute and has been promoting it.</p>
<p>Here are some links:<br />
<a href="http://www.drm.com/news/thomas_h:_moody_addresses_utah_philanthropists_regarding_vermont_l3c_act" rel="nofollow">http://www.drm.com/news/thomas_h:_moody_addresses_utah_philanthropists_regarding_vermont_l3c_act</a><br />
<a href="http://www.drm.com/business_law/l3c_-_low-profit_limited_liability_companies" rel="nofollow">http://www.drm.com/business_law/l3c_-_low-profit_limited_liability_companies</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nonprofitsassistancefund.org/blog/2008/05/12/where-for-profit-and-nonprofit-meet/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nonprofitsassistancefund.org/blog/2008/05/12/where-for-profit-and-nonprofit-meet/</a></p>
<p>Kate Barr: &#8220;This language was carefully developed to qualify these new entities to receive investments from foundations through Program Related Investments.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sec.state.vt.us/corps/dobiz/llc/llc_l3c.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sec.state.vt.us/corps/dobiz/llc/llc_l3c.htm</a></p>
<p>(I should identify myself as the author of this comment:  Bill Densmore, <a href="mailto:densmorew@rjionline.org">densmorew@rjionline.org</a>)</p>
<p>And the conact information for the lawyer in Vermont:<br />
Tom Moody<br />
Downs Rachlin Martin PLLC<br />
Burlington, VT<br />
802-846-8316 (direct)<br />
802-734-8316 (cell)<br />
<a href="mailto:tmoody@drm.com">tmoody@drm.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ruth Stark</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth Stark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Making profit and publishing independant news are a bad mix. Reporters should keep to reporting news. Managers may think of business models to keep the business running]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making profit and publishing independant news are a bad mix. Reporters should keep to reporting news. Managers may think of business models to keep the business running</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Crozier</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1475</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Crozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We started Black White Read (http://blackwhiteread.com) 2 1/2 years ago *because* we saw that volunteer, NFP community news and information sites were not viable. We&#039;ve built a publishing system and ad serving system around enabling businesspeople to build online community newspapers. We sell direct ads only, no networks. We pay our contributors. Are we profitable--not yet, but it&#039;s coming soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We started Black White Read (<a href="http://blackwhiteread.com" rel="nofollow">http://blackwhiteread.com</a>) 2 1/2 years ago *because* we saw that volunteer, NFP community news and information sites were not viable. We&#8217;ve built a publishing system and ad serving system around enabling businesspeople to build online community newspapers. We sell direct ads only, no networks. We pay our contributors. Are we profitable&#8211;not yet, but it&#8217;s coming soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Chase</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1474</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem, in my opinion, is the funders of the non-profit news orgs are pulling from the wrong pool of money to fund these organizations - the grant pool, rather than the investment pool. I think pulling from the investment pool demands a greater level of accountability and creates a greater sense of urgency to hone the business model. Increasingly, foundations are adopting what is called in that world &quot;Mission (or program) related investing&quot;. For example, an environmentally focused foundation would take a portion of their endowment (which looks similar to a mutual fund) and put it towards environmentally oriented businesses. They may accept that it&#039;s higher risk investing (and thus makes up 5% or less of their investment pool) but that&#039;s ok since it&#039;s in their focus area. Google &quot;mission related investing&quot; and you&#039;ll get many articles like this one -- http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/2470.html -- that highlight examples.

I have spent a lot of time (as a volunteer) doing fundraising for non-profits and I am now running a profitable hyper local site (www.sunvalleyonline.com) and making sales calls. The funny thing is that in either situation (non-profit or for-profit news org), you have to regularly go asking for money from either philanthropists or advertisers. I wouldn&#039;t say it&#039;s any easier asking for a donation than it is asking for an ad order.

While we&#039;ve eked out a profit, we put in place a new sales approach ~10 days ago and are seeing terrific results. The difference is that we&#039;ve doggedly and urgently honed our sales approach since we aren&#039;t depending on donor largesse and it looks like we&#039;ve hit the mark (despite the economy, we&#039;re blowing away our targets). Figuring out a sustainably revenue model strikes me as much more sustainable than a non-profit model and not any more difficult than developing and regularly running fundraising campaigns as a non-profit which isn&#039;t a walk in the park.

David - I think you and OJR would do a great service if you dug into the notion of Mission Related Investing as it applied to this world as opposed to the charity angle. I could put you in touch with at least one foundation head that is doing this sort of thing. Thanks to you and the OJR for this series -- very thought provoking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem, in my opinion, is the funders of the non-profit news orgs are pulling from the wrong pool of money to fund these organizations &#8211; the grant pool, rather than the investment pool. I think pulling from the investment pool demands a greater level of accountability and creates a greater sense of urgency to hone the business model. Increasingly, foundations are adopting what is called in that world &#8220;Mission (or program) related investing&#8221;. For example, an environmentally focused foundation would take a portion of their endowment (which looks similar to a mutual fund) and put it towards environmentally oriented businesses. They may accept that it&#8217;s higher risk investing (and thus makes up 5% or less of their investment pool) but that&#8217;s ok since it&#8217;s in their focus area. Google &#8220;mission related investing&#8221; and you&#8217;ll get many articles like this one &#8212; <a href="http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/2470.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/2470.html</a> &#8212; that highlight examples.</p>
<p>I have spent a lot of time (as a volunteer) doing fundraising for non-profits and I am now running a profitable hyper local site (www.sunvalleyonline.com) and making sales calls. The funny thing is that in either situation (non-profit or for-profit news org), you have to regularly go asking for money from either philanthropists or advertisers. I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s any easier asking for a donation than it is asking for an ad order.</p>
<p>While we&#8217;ve eked out a profit, we put in place a new sales approach ~10 days ago and are seeing terrific results. The difference is that we&#8217;ve doggedly and urgently honed our sales approach since we aren&#8217;t depending on donor largesse and it looks like we&#8217;ve hit the mark (despite the economy, we&#8217;re blowing away our targets). Figuring out a sustainably revenue model strikes me as much more sustainable than a non-profit model and not any more difficult than developing and regularly running fundraising campaigns as a non-profit which isn&#8217;t a walk in the park.</p>
<p>David &#8211; I think you and OJR would do a great service if you dug into the notion of Mission Related Investing as it applied to this world as opposed to the charity angle. I could put you in touch with at least one foundation head that is doing this sort of thing. Thanks to you and the OJR for this series &#8212; very thought provoking.</p>
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		<title>By: 78.34.34.115</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1473</link>
		<dc:creator>78.34.34.115</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Privacy

Loss of privacy is the primary concern people have with social mapping and other location-based services. While many people try to build a firewall between their real lives and their anonymized on-line personalities, it will be impossible to maintain that separation should they start using location-based services; anonymity becomes thin when your cell phone tells you that you are standing three feet away from &quot;citygirl105&quot;. Knowing someone&#039;s location is a two-way street, and if users want to reap the benefits of finding out where other people are, they will also be forced to share their own locations. People will know where you are, for better or for worse. Parents may embrace systems that track their teenage driver&#039;s location but they should be prepared for the day when that same system, which perhaps their company uses to help coordinate team members that are flying to a convention in another city, can also be used by their boss to follow their movements when they call in sick. (Did you really stay in bed all day...?). &quot;

The world as the interface ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Privacy</p>
<p>Loss of privacy is the primary concern people have with social mapping and other location-based services. While many people try to build a firewall between their real lives and their anonymized on-line personalities, it will be impossible to maintain that separation should they start using location-based services; anonymity becomes thin when your cell phone tells you that you are standing three feet away from &#8220;citygirl105&#8243;. Knowing someone&#8217;s location is a two-way street, and if users want to reap the benefits of finding out where other people are, they will also be forced to share their own locations. People will know where you are, for better or for worse. Parents may embrace systems that track their teenage driver&#8217;s location but they should be prepared for the day when that same system, which perhaps their company uses to help coordinate team members that are flying to a convention in another city, can also be used by their boss to follow their movements when they call in sick. (Did you really stay in bed all day&#8230;?). &#8221;</p>
<p>The world as the interface </p>
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		<title>By: 67.40.21.250</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1472</link>
		<dc:creator>67.40.21.250</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I Publish/Edit The B-Town Blog, a local news site for a suburb of Seattle, WA called Burien. Started it as a hobby less than a year ago, and we now have 30 local Advertisers. We are beating our local community newspaper&#039;s website, scooping them daily, updating 3-7 times per day, and building a business. And of course, we&#039;re ready to consult with others trying to do the same. http://www.b-townblog.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Publish/Edit The B-Town Blog, a local news site for a suburb of Seattle, WA called Burien. Started it as a hobby less than a year ago, and we now have 30 local Advertisers. We are beating our local community newspaper&#8217;s website, scooping them daily, updating 3-7 times per day, and building a business. And of course, we&#8217;re ready to consult with others trying to do the same. <a href="http://www.b-townblog.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.b-townblog.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Westphal</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>David Westphal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if for-profit sites focusing on community news might be a bit of an early-warning system for gauging the territory where newspapers are headed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if for-profit sites focusing on community news might be a bit of an early-warning system for gauging the territory where newspapers are headed.</p>
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		<title>By: George Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.ojr.org/the-case-for-independent-news-sites-as-profit-makers-i-think-theres-a-great-business-model-here/#comment-1470</link>
		<dc:creator>George Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojr.org/?p=1577#comment-1470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave: Thanks for including OurTown.com in your commentary, but please note that we are much more than an aggregator. Yes we have input from Topix, Zillow, Oodle, Yelp, the New York Times, Outside.In and more. That makes us an aggregator. But the main business of our 70,000 sites, covering every ZIP code, is licensing local editors to provide hyper-local news and advertising. The aggregated national/international/state/local news and RSS feeds received by local editors give breadth to the websites -- but the main thrust is hyper-local.
George Blake
OurTown chief news officer]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave: Thanks for including OurTown.com in your commentary, but please note that we are much more than an aggregator. Yes we have input from Topix, Zillow, Oodle, Yelp, the New York Times, Outside.In and more. That makes us an aggregator. But the main business of our 70,000 sites, covering every ZIP code, is licensing local editors to provide hyper-local news and advertising. The aggregated national/international/state/local news and RSS feeds received by local editors give breadth to the websites &#8212; but the main thrust is hyper-local.<br />
George Blake<br />
OurTown chief news officer</p>
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